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Has "God" helped some atheist/agnostics?

What has atheist done in opposition to or in observing what evidence that has been presented that the atheist would not have done if there was no "issue" of a God thingie? (which up to this point: testimony, written text, psychological meme verfication, and historical line or history path evidence)

So to say, no God has ever existed, no God has ever been purposed, no God has ever been considered to debate. "Atheist" would have no such title, so considering yourself in opposition to God. Now, would the debating, researching, arguing, discussion etc. have made you a more engaged or intellectual of a person because you have done such things? I would understand some Atheist do not "engage" nor research they just accept or say no god exist because nothing god has slapoed the poo out if them. But for those that have actively engaged, has the engaging, researching curiosity etc. given reason and motive to do more or learn more than if a God "issue" has ever existed?

By Antifred7
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7

What? I'd love just a pinch of what you smoked before you created that post.

SLBushway Level 6 Mar 7, 2019

Bet you would, its called supernatural. You can get it at most Supermarkets on the supernatural isle. Often next to miracle grow.

4

the problem with believing in something that does not esists is you are not living in the real world. Just another lie that the powerful use to control the poor. What religion treats women as equal? Non they treat them as reproduction machines to be a mans slave!

benhmiller Level 6 Mar 7, 2019
3

No. If there were no god to examine, then the issues and questions atheists/agnostics examine would still be there.

For example, "where do we come from" or "where are we going" can be addressed by examining the god answer vs. science answer or JUST the science answer.

Clearly many people, in their exploration of theology, have arrived at answers or questions they would not have normally arrived at. But I would not attribute that to "god" but just the endless curiosity that human beings have about all things and how starting to think about one topic often leads you to think about many other related, and unrelated, topics.

TheMiddleWay Level 8 Mar 7, 2019
3

No evidence so I broke up with God. I got tired of many lies. So I moved on with my single life.

Cecilia2018 Level 5 Mar 7, 2019

I do not say there is "no evidence", but what I would see is that what evidence there is(not that it proves) that evidence is not the kind of "God" that people want.

I just expressing my on experience about searching for God or Gods evidences. I was raised as Catholic where praying and begging to God or Gods was the solution to solve my needs. But God or Gods never took the time to show me evidences of his, her or their existence. I think 40 years of my life searching for where is God? ,Who is God?; When God is going to rescue me?, Why God doesn't listen to me? was enough to find out that I was on my own and I was free from religious.

2

I oppose God. I think God sucks. He expects us to praise him all day, every day? For what?!? He exists, all right, in some people's minds. Therefore, he exists! He builds churches and writes books and sings his own praises, and sends young men off to war, and to be fair, creates soup kitchens and organizes AA meetings. But overall, way to full of himself. Takes on all kinds of shapes and sizes, contradicts himself endlessly, can't make up his mind about ANYTHING. Even supports some sports teams, and even individual athletes, over others. I fail to see WHAT, exactly, he does to make himself useful.

Storm1752 Level 6 Mar 9, 2019

SHE can be a bitch sometimes, don't want to piss god off. Ever seen movie Dogma with actor/singer Alanas Morissette?

Edited
2

Omg 😱 nooooo I don't know if he/she exist and don't care as I don't believe in that crap and never will ......the only thing I believe in is myself

Daz1981 Level 6 Mar 9, 2019
2

🤣🤣🤣
The question itself is the answer. Think about it.

Aurum16 Level 5 Mar 9, 2019

What is God?

God is WHAT!!! Yes, god is the word what. what really exist. people ask "what" and they get an answer to help them. that is totally awesome logic you have there.

The question assumes into fact that a God exist. Had it been worded "the belief in a god" that would be a whole different ball game.

2

Incomprehensible rant?????

t1nick Level 7 Mar 8, 2019

it weeds out those that are not intelligent enough to actually understand what question is being asked. So people like you that do not have a true inquisitive nature would just glance over and make a comment such as "incomprehensible " or "incoherent " those people weed themselves out of what would or could be an intellectual conversation.

@Antifred I take you not encountered my posts or you wouldn't come to that conclusion. Lol

@t1nick You encounter my post. I give a glance at others posts from time to time, but i do not know specifically if i have walked into yours.

@Antifred how arrogant of you... but please go on rationalizing just how "intelligent" you "believe" you are, because everyone needs a good laugh occasionally.

@SwampBatman This is some spicy shit. I made it myself. But be careful you might cry not laugh.

Dressing
blah blah blah. blah blah blah. thyme rhyme. blah blah blah. blah blah blah. garlic blah blah blah. blah blah blah. vox populi. blah blah blah. sufferin saffron. blah blah blah. blah blah blah. blah blah blah. blah blah blah. blah blah blah. hurry curry. blah blah blah. blah blah blah. blah blah blah. Ghost Tabasco. blah

My word salads are usually a little blah. I tried to spice this one up a little bit.

2

Just this morning god blessed me and helped me find the toilet paper. In case you are ever stuck like this just remember to keep your bible around.

DenoPenno Level 8 Mar 8, 2019

holy shit batman

2

You’re question(s) and responses are both incoherent. And you resort to the age old circular argument - you use the writings (in your case, the bible) that promulgate god as the proof of his existence. You can’t logically do that - an independent, external, and verifiable verification of those writings must also exist. There is no such.

For example, I could say that I believe that Sauron is the master of all. I’ve read ‘The Lord Of The Rings’, and it says so in those books. Therefore it must be true. This is patently and obviously ridiculous, bit it’s an identical argument to yours.

KevinTwining Level 7 Mar 8, 2019
2

Antifred? I am thinking you're also AntiCoherence.

JordanMarsh Level 4 Mar 7, 2019

I think of every all the time, its why people say i am omniscient, which is true i know everything, but I do not have it all memiruzed. But with some many thoughts in my mind, i relized i connect so much but then to get it all out into a short text is just not enought to explain all the connections.

@Antifred Grammar points out the contrary.

@bohica1369 i am not in England

@Antifred Your point is?

@bohica1369 period is a point English uses at end of sentence most often.

@bohica1369 I am not English.

@bohica1369 How can English grammer point to something of me being contrary?

@Antifred Your lack of grammar is contrary to the post where you said you know everything. The period in punctuation is used at the end of a sentence to show the thought is complete. It is used in English, the language most of us are using that you are dreadfully butchering. I was just originally making a little sarcastic comment, as so many others have. You're basically, incoherently rambling on and no one has any idea what you are talking about. Please stop this train wreck.

@bohica1369 like i say, I am nit english, i am not in england and NONE of my english teachers has ever found any of my writting incoheriant becausr of a split period, or a dangling apostrophe.

@Antifred I'm not English or in England either. Once again, English is the language you are doing a phenomenal job of butchering. You're definitely not in the United States, even though your profile says Texas. Now, go back and play at Christianmingle, Allahforboys, or whatever religious site you came from. Your spelling and incoherence are giving all of us a headache.

@bohica1369 Why are you butchering the word religion? Religion ... pure and faultless is this: to help widows and orphans in need and avoiding worldly corruption. James 1:27

The government "United stated of America" is the secret religion(as you use the word religion) of the Masonic lodge secret religion racist devil worshippers. I have lived in Texas, but currently sitting in Nebraska about to drive to Minnesota.

Edited

@bohica1369 why don't you go back to england and take all your envadors with you?

@Antifred Mirrors can take your soul. Darrel 3:7. Wow, that was cool, just like the Bible I just quoted myself and because I put a number after my name, it HAS to be true. Go read your fiction book. Yes, fiction. Made up, false stories, written by man. No different than Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny; devices made up by man to control the population and scare them into behaving.

Edited

@bohica1369 at least inpart you are correct ..."devices made up by man to control the population and scare them into behaving."

@bohica1369 Laws of government spoken of in metamorphic terms as beast and mark of the beast. 666. laws requiring identification for taxation and government control. Do you have you identifying documents birth certificate, social security card and photo identification?

Edited

@Antifred a 'period' is also known as a 'full stop" it is used to MARK the END of a sentence/paragraph, etc, etc.
And, as a side thought here, I am kind of wondering IF, perhaps, English, be it U.K. or American, etc, may just be your 'default' language AFTER your 'normal' ones such, perhaps, Infantile Babble, etc, etc.
There are books and apps available called 'English for Dummies' freely accessible both On-Line and in Public Libraries in case you were unaware of their existence.

@Triphid that might work [sic]

@Antifred It would be worth a try, in my opinion, given your apparent lack of knowledge, etc, in the English Language AND its usage and applications.
Fortunately for me, I was one of those students who ACTUALLY paid due heed to my Teachers in school and learned English extremely well.

@Triphid What are the types of Amblyopia?
The types and causes of amblyopia are: Strabismic amblyopia, deprivation amblyopia, refractive amblyopia, or a combination of the three. All forms of amblyopia result in reduced vision in the effected eye (s).

@Triphid Amblyopia occurs when the nerve pathway from one eye to the brain does not develop during childhood. ... Strabismus (crossed eyes) is the most common cause of amblyopia. There is often a family history of this condition. The term "lazy eye" refers to amblyopia, which often occurs along with strabismus.Aug 28, 2018

@Triphid Lazy eye develops because of abnormal visual experience early in life that changes the nerve pathways between a thin layer of tissue (retina) at the back of the eye and the brain. The weaker eye receives fewer visual signals. Eventually, the ability of the eyes to work together decreases, and the brain suppresses or ignores input from the weaker eye.

Anything that blurs a child's vision or causes the eyes to cross or turn out may result in lazy eye. Common causes of the condition include:

Muscle imbalance (strabismus). The most common cause of lazy eye is an imbalance in the muscles that position the eyes. This imbalance can cause the eyes to cross in or turn out, and prevents them from tracking together in a coordinated way.
Difference in sharpness of vision between the eyes (refractive anisometropia). A significant difference between the prescriptions in each eye — often due to farsightedness but sometimes to nearsightedness or an imperfection on the surface of the eye called astigmatism — can result in lazy eye. Glasses or contact lenses are typically used to correct these refractive problems. In some children lazy eye is caused by a combination of strabismus and refractive problems.
Deprivation. Any problem with one eye — such as a cloudy area in the lens (cataract) — can deprive a child of clear vision in that eye. Deprivation amblyopia in infancy requires urgent treatment to prevent permanent vision loss. Deprivation amblyopia often results in the most severe amblyopia.

@Triphid What is amblyopia?
The brain and the eyes work together to produce vision. The eye focuses light on the back part of the eye known as the retina. Cells of the retina then trigger nerve signals that travel along the optic nerves to the brain. Amblyopia is the medical term used when the vision of one eye is reduced because it fails to work properly with the brain. The eye itself looks normal, but for various reasons the brain favors the other eye. This condition is also sometimes called lazy eye.

How common is amblyopia?
Amblyopia is the most common cause of visual impairment among children, affecting approximately 2 to 3 out of every 100 children. Unless it is successfully treated in early childhood, amblyopia usually persists into adulthood. It is also the most common cause of monocular (one eye) visual impairment among young and middle-aged adults.

@Triphid Certain Eye Conditions Affect Children's Performance on Standardized Tests
JUNE 14, 2018
Matt Hoffman
@byMattHoffman

@Triphid Children with amblyopia and strabismus took about 28% longer than their peers transferring answers to a multiple-choice answer form, even though they have good vision in 1 or both eyes,” Kelly told MD Magazine.

@Triphid Paired with these findings are those of a previous study Kelly was a part of, which revealed that children with amblyopia read more slowly than their peers, even when viewing with 2 eyes. “If a child is slow at reading and slow at transferring answers, then they may have trouble finishing tests on time, hindering their academic success,” she said.

@Triphid How Functional Vision Problems Affect Reading, Writing and Arithmetic
Posted by Greg Mischio

@Triphid When a student is learning to read, a serious vision problem could reduce their ability to know what they are looking at and impact their ability to remember numbers and letters. An aspiring reader will struggle to keep pace with fellow classmates as they acquire this new skill.

@Triphid When a student is reading to learn and has blurry or double vision, their ability to read for long periods of time and comprehend what they are reading can be severely reduced. They won’t be able to process information as quickly as their fellow students and will fall behind.

@Antifred Well, IF that is a part causative of your apparent 'problem' then perhaps you might wish to ask 'god' to resolve it for you?
Sadly though, we all have 'problems' of our own and we deal with them and life as best we can AND Atheists, like myself, just cope as best we can, make the best out of life, don't seek the 'help' of some TOTALLY imaginary Sky Being nor even whinge and whine to others about them.
I don't mean to sound harsh or uncaring BUT having a disability IS NOT, unless you were born or are in a totally vegetative state, etc, an EXCUSE for stupidity, etc.

@Triphid Why Your Child May Be Struggling in Writing (including spelling)

Writing involves both handwriting and composition skills. It is necessary for vision to lead the hand for handwriting and this can be very difficult if the student cannot see well. In fact, often you can see in the handwriting where the student stopped looking or became fatigued

@Triphid Visualization is also critical for writing composition because the student needs to be able to organize and re-organize the composition in his or her head.
Visual recall, the ability to create a visual image based on past visual experience, is a visualization skill that is critical for spelling. In spelling, it is the ability to create a mental image of a word without being able to look at the word.

@Antifred Yes, Antifred, I know a great deal about penmanship, aka writing, since I am a published Poet, Philosopher (of sorts), writer of children's stories, academic texts, theses, etc, etc.
I have also been deeply involved in school programs such as the T.T.A.L.L. ( Talking To A Literacy Learner) here in Broken Hill, New South Wales, Australia AND raising my own daughter, teaching her read, write, compose essays, etc, etc, as well.

@Antifred Out of curiosity, Antifred, do you have anything remotely resembling what may even loosely be termed as a LIFE beyond the Internet, etc?

@Triphid I drive a semi truck, I eat, sometimes get sleep, and drive. On bad days when I am rwally tired this pjhone text is so blurry even with my reading glasses it us hard to focus on. someone would thonk i was illerate or something the way my finger typing is so bad with such blurry vision. on good dats whrn just after a full nights slee0. i can see better

@Triphid As to my stupidity, I had nevernever an English teacher complain about the compantcy of my writting. In college english and litrature I made straight A's there were times i had nose bleeds from reading and writing so much mn I am a published Author.. Thus us not a college essay i am not nwar so worried about syntax or sintax as you want to charge

@Triphid second book is almost finished just havent done cover design. other wise, I like to keep my writing short. if you look at my orofile here you will see I started a chat room called "there is good and there is evil." ... i'll link if i can. the chat thread is based on my first book.

@Triphid "There is good and there is evil. " this is agnostic thread link to my agnostic chat thread

Edited

@Triphid i might could be a bit of a philosopher myself. consider my discussions about many omnigods paradox, many mini omnigods and time seperated omni gods, consider my all knowing paradox. consider my all power many omnigids paradox. humm what else could my stupidness philosophize about?

@Triphid I just wrote a poem. i must be a poet. I can't do anything but cry.

Atheist posts that Prayer is so absurd, let us just join in give up some absurdity.

Spaghetti monster, Spaghetti monster in the sky.
Why o why must them hungry childen die.

Pasta in the sky with meatballs for an eye.
How we wish they had a pizza pie.

Bread sticks with marinara for which to dip.
Who can not be sarcastic but gave a flip.

Condisending dressing over word salad so make.
What the hope from the child to take.

Spaghetti monster spaghetti monster in the sky.
Where is your atheist near Christian sitting by.

Spaghetti monster spaghetti monster in the sky
When will your atheist see if they would get off their ass, quit complaining about God's people for not doing anything and do something themselves no child would have to die.

Edited

@Triphid Where were you remarking about your philosophy ability while I was full of stupidity?

How stupid am I, this must be a really sarcastic remark at my stupidity by someone that labels themself as "....a specialized professor teaching in a professional degree program."

I replied to what they said about students, " ...don't have an original thought in their head."

My reply:
When all the good stuff is taken, or all has been taken, how can one be origional?

The wheel is only invented once. Many, many improvements later, must the wheel be re-invented?

When all animals plants, etc. named. all discovery's made, all technology figured out, all drama themes written about and movies made: "I named 2 animals today that I re-discovered, re-dog and re-cat. let the world know they have been re-discovered and make wonderful domesticated companions. "

Maybe being generous on the time span: 10,000 years from now, if some world catastrophe hasn't wipped out people kinds current collective mind and information storage for things to be re-discovered, there may be 1000's of Willy Wanka and the chocolate factory remakes with different actors over the years.

When all original is copyrighted, patented or just worn out, how can original be original again?

Their reply:
linxminx: 1
You've just laid out the syllabus for a really interesting philosophy class!

2

I'm a firm believer that after we die, we become recycled energy.

I mean, what were we before evolving into humans?

I channel my deceased loved ones for strength and guidance. I am using their energy to give me strength. (At least, that's what I believe.) Our loved ones mission is not done and neither will ours when we think we're gone. So in essence, they are like "gods" to me because I still need them.

Again, that's MY belief.

2

This is why, like Sam Harris, I prefer the word "skeptic". We do not need a special word for people who are not convinced that astrology is useful. Religion has zero demonstrative or expository power. NONE of our life saving advances in technology or medicine has EVER been BECAUSE of religion. Yes some great scientists came from the ranks of the religious (when almost everyone was i.e. before science directly contradicted these outdated myths. Religion does not inform our morality even if we try for it to. It cannot inform us about ancient history, biology, or cosmology. The bible is almost 100% a waste of time and all anyone needs to do to make me lose respect for their intelectual judgement in such matters is to quote a bible verse as is it weree to be relevant or believed!

JOHNGALT Level 3 Mar 7, 2019

So, you say that people should not help widows and orphans in need NOR should people avoid worldly corruption? Religion ...pure and faultless is this: to help widows and orphans in need and avoiding worldly corruption. James 1:27

So, it is BAD intellectual judgement to help wufows and orphans? It is BAD intellectual judgement to avoid worldly corruption?

Edited
2

I don't understand the question.

I don't either

Has an atheist/agnostic take the "God issue" as a reason to better themselves in suchvas studying, research. learning logic. reasoning, history etc. because of a pursuit of the God issue?

Where as, someone has stated, they were already into s pursuit of such things not because of search out God Issue but because they were jyst already inclined to do so for other issues.

2

No. I'd still be curious, engaging, and have a thirst for knowledge. I'd still be a research junkie and I would still be involved in discourse and debate on issues unrelated to a god thingie.

VictoriaNotes Level 8 Mar 7, 2019

For me, in the transition from Christian, which I was reared, lead me into more questing and research. However, I considered myself inqusitive or studing type of person before leaving Christianity.

Edited
1

You said: "So to say, no God has ever existed, no God has ever been purposed, no God has ever been considered to debate. "Atheist" would have no such title, so considering yourself in opposition to God."

You are conflating belief with proof/evidence/fact to justify the terms "Atheist" and "Agnostic" only having validity because of that conflation. It's not in opposition of "God". It's in opposition of the belief and claim that there is or was a "God". You can't be in opposition of something that hasn't been proven to exist. It's opposition to the claim or belief.

1

I'm probably going to regret this but I've finished work for the week and am in a phenomenally good mood smile001.gif

  1. If I say he hasn't helped me I have, by default, recognised his existence even if he didn't help.
  2. I have also agreed that 'he' is male, again by default.
  3. You haven't specified which god you're referring to

So the answer is - That which does not exist, at least to me, cannot help or hinder.

ipdg77 Level 8 Mar 8, 2019

Of you read my info. which some say its incoherent, I had other thoughts on my mind connected to the topic. BUT ANY HOW

To clearify. "God issue" has the God issue spured or motivated you to research, study, learn or any other activity that might would be a betterment for you BECAUSE of the "God issue". Where as, If existance as we know it were to of never had any history, any thing at all of a "God issue". would you of not be in a possible better position or knowledgeable about things.

Some people say, Gid issue is not a reason for their activities if being jnquisitive, intellectual or anything else.

So, had you ever looked at the "God issue" and decided i want to learn more or do something more because of looking into the god issue which cause you to learn research, study or what ever. Thats how I am trying to ask if god has helped anyone.

@Antifred I would have to say that the 'god thing' did inspire me to research it because from a young age it made absolutely no sense whatsoever and being brought up a Catholic, and all the tripe they believe in, I wondered if I was missing something.
Turns out that after looking at a great many texts and beliefs across a variety of ages and cultures I hadn't missed anything at all. All the gods that I am aware of are man made.

@ipdg77 So, you agree with biblical text that Jesus style God is man made as biblical text indicates?

@Antifred I would agree that all gods are man made but biblical texts imply or insist that Jesus and/or god are real, that I don't agree with.

@ipdg77 May I give you some analysis information

John 1:1 In the beginning was the word, the word was with God and was God.

John 1:14 ... the word become flesh...

With out looking up scripture Jesus refered to as or said:

"son of God" And "son of man" . Come to fulfill law and prophets (old testiment know as word of god)

People of the old testiment times spoke words that were written down as prophecies, over 400 foreshadowings and prophecies have been found in old testiment that it is seen in new testiment that Jesus "Fulfilled ".

Those words come alive is what biblical "Theme" is really about.

"Stranger than Fiction" (2006) with Actor Will Ferrell has a theme similar to biblical theme in that author is controlling actor. Old testiment is author Jesus is acting character required to do as those words said, because it is said Jesus Is those words manifested in life.

The words are those spoken by man(kind) people of the old testiment. Son of man, a product of man.

So, the really true "debate" at least in part is this: Does the power of air molecules with kinetic energy leaving the lungs have capability of doing abd bring about a "person" the Jesus style God.

@Antifred You're starting to lose me but none of the bible can be taken as an absolute because everything is 'hear say' and writers will cherry pick to suit their agenda.

btw, your reference to John 1:1 in the beginning was the word, was lifted from the Ancient Egyptian creation myth concerning their god Ptah, which predates John by roughly 4,000 years at least.

Nothing in the bible is new or original at the time it was written, it's a collection of stories retold and embellished to suit the needs of the narrator.

@ipdg77 Isaiah 19:25 The LORD Almighty will bless them, saying, "Blessed be Egypt my people, Assyria my handiwork, and Israel my inheritance."

"God" of bible is Egyptian, why would Egyptian God not use his own stuff with those he claims to be his '"inheritance "?

@Antifred You're missing the point, the writers of the bible claim domain over that which is not there's. The god of the bible is NOT Egyptian, the writers of the bible pinched it, along with a whole host of earlier stories which they do not own but claim as divine. It's a con trick of........biblical proportions.

1

There is no god, so no.

chucklesIII Level 7 Mar 7, 2019

did you miss the memo about logic?

@Antifred , no, I think I just read the real one.

1

Not sure I fully understand but if the belief in god never happened then there would be no atheists. Thus I and many others could have used our thinking powers on other issues. The logical reasoning person will be that regardless. This skill set will just be used elsewhere.

Jk1960 Level 6 Mar 7, 2019
1

Produce your god Antifred. Produce him. Or her. But production is critical here.

OwlInASack Level 7 Mar 7, 2019

Are you saying you want video production of me eating an entire taco to confirm i have eaten at least 1 taco?

@Antifred I'm confused Antifre! Are saying that you are god here? Or is it the Taco?

@OwlInASack Maybe I had not explained to you. As it has been said, "Man.created God". This is supported by biblical text. John 10:33-36 33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’[d]? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?

So, I become a man to create Taco God. Taco God is a person, that person has eaten 1 taco in their life. That's it, have you ever eaten a taco? Then you are a Taco God.

@Antifred Excellent! I claim my title! Iam TacoGod!

Biblical text has labelled people as gods for 1000s of years. People exist, people are gods, Gods exist.

Most people, atheist people that is, are more appropriately opposed to the mythological style gods loke Zues, thor Willy wanka God and Harry Potter style Gods as if they don't realky exist other than fiction.

Michael Jordon, basket ball deity. Have you ever seen a fat man fly thru the air and dunk like Mike? I don't think so.

Edited

@OwlInASack Thats your choice really. I don't force it upon anyone.

@OwlInASack You can call me Taco God #2 lol

@Antifred
People exist, people are gods, Gods exist.

According to the biblical or sacred texts, god(s) created people.
So clearly the second premise (people are gods) is self-contradictory if one believes in cause and effect and the effect can't be the cause of the cause...

Also, if your definition of god is so loose as to attribute anything special to people do to godhood, then the definition of god loses it's biblical/sacred text meaning and everything, from special trees to special dogs to special rocks are gods... and that is a meaningless tautology

Edited

@TheMiddleWay don't you blaspheme against me, TacoGod. I will shower meat and lettuce down on you with great wrath

@OwlInASack
Free taco meat and lettuce for blaspheming you? You may want to re-think the nature of your divine wrath... smile009.gif

@TheMiddleWay hmm good point.

I will shower you with wrathful bread bits and chilli sauce....

@OwlInASack
Mmmmmm... blaspheming you has never been more delicious!

@TheMiddleWay ok. You win. I’m punishing you with a night at yours - no drugs allowed - with Antifred explaining the world

@TheMiddleWay Not cintradactory, you are not knowledgable to underdtand. let me explain.

In the beginning was the word, the word was with god and was God. Rauch(biblical god) is a force like breath or wind. . air moves with kinetic energy. Jesus "son of God" Son of words, son of man( is the words spoken by man manifested into the flesh) John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us....

Stranger than fiction with actor Will Ferrell (2006) has a theme simular to biblical Jesus. Where that Wills charactor it s controlled by auther in the movie. Jesus charactor is controlled by old testiment text as the author.

Edited

@TheMiddleWay Science believes that we come from the mythical word BANG in the beginning and science theorizes that it was a big word.

@TheMiddleWay, @OwlInASack And you wonder why you actually don't havve super power?

@TheMiddleWay people create people, people have children that are people.

@TheMiddleWay one believes in cause and effect and the effect can't be the cause of the cause...is thus why people are so contradictory? people being the cause of people is a contradiction? does people not cause the effect of people? people are so contradictory

@Antifred @themiddleway

Ah but don’t forget: the path is lit by the beauty of the moon on the water.

@OwlInASack that might work

@Antifred
In the beginning was the word, the word was with god and was God. Rauch(biblical god) is a force like breath or wind. . air moves with kinetic energy. Jesus "son of God" Son of words, son of man( is the words spoken by man manifested into the flesh) John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us...

The circulatory notion is that god created people but people are gods. This is circulatory as it implies that people, as gods, created themselves and the universe and that is clearly not the case.

Science believes that we come from the mythical word BANG in the beginning and science theorizes that it was a big word.

No it doesn't. You do realize the "Big Bang" is merely poetic justice and the "Bang" is just figurative as there was no medium for sound at the beginning.?

@Antifred
"people create people, people have children that are people."
Yes. But those people didn't create the heavens and the earth ala god in genesis.
So people creating people is fine; people as gods creating people is not.
Hence people aren't gods... or you are forwarding the idea that people create other people and were the gods responsible for the creation outlined in genesis... can't have it both ways since that god created the first person, adam and eve.

@OwlInASack @antifred
Hard to forget considering that "Consciousness consists of sonar energy of quantum energy. “Quantum” means a condensing of the astral."

[sebpearce.com]

@Antifred
And you wonder why you actually don't havve super power?

I have, in fact, never wondered about this. The powers I have, natural or preternatural, are plenty for me.

@TheMiddleWay May I give you some analysis information

Ruach(god) is a force like breath or wind.

Air molecules leave lungs with Kinetic energy , wind has kinetic energy.

Does kinetic energy have anything to do with lets say, star creation. atom creation, molecular creation, cellular creation, tissue creation, creating people ... Does "Ruach" being a force have anything to do with creation?

John 1:1 In the beginning was the word, the word was with God and was God.

John 1:14 ... the word become flesh...

With out looking up scripture Jesus refered to as or said:

"son of God" And "son of man" . Come to fulfill law and prophets (old testiment know as word of god)

People of the old testiment times spoke words that were written down as prophecies, over 400 foreshadowings and prophecies have been found in old testiment that it is seen in new testiment that Jesus "Fulfilled ".

Those words come alive is what biblical "Theme" is really about.

"Stranger than Fiction" (2006) with Actor Will Ferrell has a theme similar to biblical theme in that author is controlling actor. Old testiment is author Jesus is acting character required to do as those words said, because it is said Jesus Is those words manifested in life.

The words are those spoken by man(kind) people of the old testiment. Son of man, a product of man.

So, the really true "debate" at least in part is this: Does the power of air molecules with kinetic energy leaving the lungs have capability of doing abd bring about a "person" the Jesus style God.

Edited

@TheMiddleWay word with god was god. sounds like describing an onomatopoeia. BANG is an onomatopoeia

@Antifred
Except there was no air during the Big Bang, nor any other molecules, to create breath, sound, or any other notion of sound.

Just saying, trying to reconcile biblical text with modern science runs into major problems...

@TheMiddleWay

Carl Sagan states at 2 minutes 49 seconds "big bang is our current scientific creation MYTH"

Big bang is a myth no more no less. and as all myth could very well not easily reconcile with one another.

Edited

@TheMiddleWay You do not know for fact there wss no air in "beginning" eterniyy, infinity has no beginning or an end. To say an absolute beginning is a fallacy

@Antifred
That's true: I don't know for a fact there was no air in the beginning. Nor do I know there was a beginning. All I can speak of is the theory which states that in order for air to exist, oxygen and nitrogen must exist. And in order for those to exist, stars have to exist, and die, to form these molecules. Thus, by extension, if there were no stars in the beginning, there was no air either. And of course if there was no beginning, then there might have been air there to begin with.

But that is the self consistency of that theory. But, by the same token, we don't know for a fact that anything in the bible is factual either. Hence, trying to reconcile two different sets of "creation myths" can only cause confusion as what is factual in one account is nonfactual in the other.

Edited

@TheMiddleWay Let us start to explain existence... humm how do we do that right now ftom fresh? Well logically we start "in the beginning" chapter 1 to begin explaining how we exist. So lets start with a starting point. bible says that starting point gave off light to begin with. Sheep herders are not considered scientists so not much more detail is considered necessary for that time. But now, 1000s of years later science starts with a point and gives more detain which us fine. but basically it had a beginning associated with light formation as apart of the near start. How could "sheep" herders have gotten close?

The "god" created heavens(stars, sky things)

Bang is about the same but more 'scientific" detail.

life creation bibluxally us not "scientific" per say, but consider it is not far from evolutionary logical order. does biblical text say "birds were created then they flew around shitting and caused trees to grow where they shit". No, biblical text is not so far out of line from observed evolutionary line of reasoning.

@Antifred
but basically it had a beginning associated with light formation [...] How could "sheep" herders have gotten close?
They didn't, at least not close to modern scientific theory.
According to BB theory, light (i.e. electromagnetism, photons) didn't actually come into existence until after the actual beginning and is detectable only 300 thousand years after the beginning of the universe.

Edited

@Antifred
And again, this presume that there WAS a beginning. There are other theories outside of the BB (like Penrose's Conformal Cyclic Cosmology) that don't have a beginning and thus would be completely outside the realm of any stories in genesis or other sacred texts that do talk of beginnings.

@TheMiddleWay That is a lot of "scientific" detail. think of people 3-4000 years ago as being mostly illiterate sheep herders compared to modern day kindergarteners. Do you really think you want to sit down and teach 5 year olds that bearly know their abc' s all the x,y, and z's and all the mathmatical detail associated with bang theory?

Biblical text in "creation" starting point is a "Reader's Digest " version. You know what I mean by a "Reader's Digest " version?

Edited

@TheMiddleWay Like I say, let us start some where and call it "In the beginning" and go from thete, now go check your sheep one day you might learn to count your sheep and kniw how many you have...

@Antifred
I agree. Which is why making the assumption that sheep herders have the same knowledge as modern scientists, even in a readers digest abridged version, is an unjustified assumption....
The same way as assuming that a 5 year old has the same knowledge as a car mechanic about fixing your car, just in an abridged version.

I wouldn't rely on a 5 year old to tell me how to fix my car anymore than I would rely on a 2000 year old sheep herder to give me knowledge of a universe. smile001.gif

@Antifred
" Like I say, let us start some where and call it "In the beginning" "
We aren't even sure there was a beginning... the Big Bang is just one theory; there are many others.... the same way that Biblical Genesis is just one account and there are many others.

@TheMiddleWay the carl Sagan video i sent explains a possible rebirth or a bang and rebang as if things has forever repeated.... if i remember the hindu /Carl Sagan clip i sent you correctly, been a few sinxe I watch all of it.

1

I get what your saying. That is a very interesting perspective. It all depends on how you look at it. Who knows what Atheists would research if it wasnt for the God idea...

AlfonseCapone Level 5 Mar 7, 2019

Heres what I do not understand: Why has Atheist that claim to study the biblical text not figured out what God is?

I had a long series of supernatural experiences in my life and it climaxed with having what I can at best label as an encounter with a Jesus style God.

Obviously, someone making a claim as I just did everyone would think i was crazy. One of the last things said to me when I was attacked by this Jesus style God was that no one would believe me. Initially, It w as s not something I seen as a trap or an attack because I had been reared Christisn and believed in such things as "bringing down principalities, power, and wickedness in high places". The "encounter" and for some short time after it started dawning on me that what I "believed in" was a deception and my belief of "spirit lead" fighting the Masonic lodge secret religion racist devil worshippers was a good biblical Jesus Lead thing to do.

I was ... I don't know what I was, but the biggest thing that I didn't get was after I had had such awesome supernatural prophetic, words of knowledge, prophesey fulfillment *don't like using the word psychic but many secular people understand that better for people that can like do the "rwad a persons mail" psychic reading why would someone of a supernatural experience tell me that no one would believe me.

Anyhow, this is getting to a ling story but after the encounter I went back to biblical studing some things, and gound it alk right there in biblucal text with an understanding of history it can be seen.

Jesus the Christ is lucipher the devil leading the Masonic lodge secret religion racist devil worshippers . So, i no longer consider mysrlf Christian but cannot honestly be agnostic nor atheist.

But, as i look into biblucal text and better understand jesus style god and understand biblical prophesy abd history since such like Revelations was written things just stick out like a sore thumb.

It was only recently that I discovered atheist. I mean i had heard about them in my life but dudnt come across any "hardcore" atheist until recently.

What gets me is how much atheist claim to study the bible to disprove christian debates but they are just not smart enough to understand or connect with even recent hustory as Adolph Hitler demon posessed by Jesus style gid. A little clue: Jesus good Sheppard, Jews his sheep, shepard's eventually lead sheep to slaughter. Hitler wasn't using some Chinese philosophy to eradicate the sheep, he was on pagonism abd Revelations.

Yeah, its funny illogical atheist think they can study the bible to disprove Jesus style God.

Just for example Isaiah 19:25 The LORD Almighty will bless them, saying, "Blessed be Egypt my people, Assyria my handiwork, and Israel my inheritance."

Jesus style "God" is Egyptian.

@Antifred
I've only ever seen you quote the bible. Yet if we are all gods, then why not quote from other sacred texts, some of which contradict the bible?

Bit of a paradox to the "gods are everything and everywhere" viewpoint don't you think? smile009.gif

Who knows what Atheists would research if it wasnt for the God idea...

This presumes that atheists spend 100% of their time researching/debunking the god idea. This is not the case anymore than a football fan spends 100% of their time talking football. Oh, I'm sure there are some people out there like this but for the majority, atheism (and for that matter, theism for the other side) only occupies a small percentage of their time. So if ti wasn't for the god idea, "atheists" wouldn't be called atheists but they would still be interested in the hosts other things they are interested in. In a similar manner, if there were no football, then football fans wouldn't call themselves football fans but there are plenty of other sports they would undoubtedly be interested in. smile009.gif

@TheMiddleWay I have posts discussing omnigids, many omni gids at once paradox. mini omni gods, monotheism verses polythesesism. look thro my post and see. and all knowing paradox

Edited

can you help? the following copy is unable to understand my writings. since you say you can understand, could you translate if it would help this guy?

Triphid: 0
@Antifred Yes, Antifred, you comment was as clear as the driven sludge exuding from a cess-pit.

@TheMiddleWay Well said...I agree with that logic

@TheMiddleWay, @Antifred Ive had unexplainable experiences in my past too. That doesnt prove to me that theyre supernatural or there is s god. I figure maybe my brain was operating at a higher frequency. Maybe science will be able to explain it one day. I guess its all about personal perspective...

1

No. I'm a truth-seeker. People lie about everything. (I'm not joking, everything)
My engagement with liars, and the merely deceived, was inevitable.
And, there are plenty of roads of knowledge I have pursued that has nothing to do with religion.

MLinoge Level 6 Mar 7, 2019

Let me ask, Is it appropriate to call a person that is decieved a liar? where as the deciever would be the liar, but the decieved a victim of the deciever. Can you destinguish between the deviever and one that is merely decieved and victimized believing something as true? I know I was once a Christian and I have found things since that I would see that I was deceived but I would not consider my srlf a liar then because it was not my intent to deceive.

one reason I left Christianity, was because of finding out the deception and not continuing with it.

by caling the victum of deception a liar, is that not adding insult to injury?

@Antifred MLinoge never said that the "merely deceived" were liars. Go back and re read that because there is a distinction being made, that being between those who knowingly create falsehoods and those that unwittingly spread/believe them.

It's no different than the Santa Claus mythology with children. Adults lie to the children and the children often believe, propagate and reinforce the lie until they learn the truth, but that doesn't mean that they are liars, just "merely deceived". Maybe you're reading something into that comment that isn't there.

@Antifred What Shouldbefishing said.

Are you trying to start at fight?

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Grammer needs work.

Alphaeevee Level 4 Mar 14, 2019

you don't say

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Buwahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaa

AnneWimsey Level 8 Mar 9, 2019
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He has always given me the 25th of December as a holiday.

Corvislover Level 6 Mar 8, 2019

Pagan holliday in the Name of Jesus. I don't know exact details, but Israel historians that knows the activities, feasts or history related to the purported timing of the virgin birth would say that according to what is written biblically, Jesus was born march/April. Being as how biblical text did not give an exact date, sometime during the roman pagan catholic conflation they assigned Dec. 25 more because it was closer to pagan holiday.

@Antifred I was being sarcastic. I get the day off despite the fact I don't believe.

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