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What did Trump do, if anything, to incite violence?

This question is sincere as I'm trying to find out myself. I'm a fairly active reader of news but have only seen outrage in mainstream news outlets about the DC protests and not specific claims of what Trump did or how the protests were more violent or dangerous than the months of BLM protests last year. The attached video by JP Sears seems to suggest that Facebook, Twitter, Amazon, Apple, and Google have teamed up with Liberals to censor dissent and promote that Trump is dangerous via propaganda. In the video, he shows two tweets of Trump, shown below, that he says is what the fuss is all about - is that right?

Bonus question: How are the alleged calls of violence by Trump different or worse than those in this video below?

Did Trump incite violence?

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Admin 8 Jan 13
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26

YES, SOME

Did he directly call for violence against the capitol?
No. Never.

Has he directly called for violence against other people in other circumstances?
Yes. Many times.

Has he made it so his supporters feel justified resorting to violence?
Absolutely. All the time

A sampling over the years of direct quotes from him; no media perspective or editorializing.


2021
"Go home. We love you" (said to people that had just assaulted the capitol)

"Trial by Combat" (NOT TRUMP BUT GUILIANI but spoken prior to the capitol assault at an official trump rally)

2020
"Stand back and stand by" (said to people with a history of violent rhetoric)

" Any difficulty and we will assume control but, when the looting starts, the shooting starts."

"“LIBERATE MICHIGAN”" (prior to the foiled kidnapping attempt on Michigan's governor)

2019
"Why don’t they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came" (a comment made about members of congress)

“That’s only in the Panhandle, you can get away with that statement.”" (his response to a rally member yelling "SHOOT THEM" when he asked "How do you stop these people?", a response that drew laughter and approval from the rest of the audience.)

2018
"“Any guy who can do a body-slam ... he’s my guy.” (in reference to a congressman who had body slammed a reporter in 2017)

2017
"“Wouldn’t you love to see one of these NFL owners, when somebody disrespects our flag, to say, ‘Get that son of a bitch off the field right now. Out. He’s fired. He’s fired!’”"

" I said, please don’t be too nice. Like when you guys put somebody in the car and you’re protecting their head, you know, the way you put their hand over, like, don’t hit their head and they’ve just killed somebody. Don’t hit their head. I said, you can take the hand away, okay?"

"The FAKE NEWS media is not my enemy, it is the enemy of the American People!" (Jared Ramos, a prolific online trump supporter, kills 5 people at The Capitol Gazeete a year and a half later)

2016
"“Get ‘em out of here!”" (instructions to the crowd prior to them assaulting three people at his rally)

"“We’ve had a couple that were really violent. And the particular one when I said, [I’d] like to bang him. That was — a very vicious — you know, he is a guy who was swinging very loud and then started swinging at the audience. And you know what? The audience swung back. And I thought it was very, very appropriate. He was swinging, he was hitting people and the audience hit back. And that’s what we need a little bit more of. Now, I’m not talking about just a protester. This was a guy who was — should not have been allowed to do what he did. And frankly, if you want to know the truth, the police were very, very restrained. The police have been amazing. But the police were very, very restrained.”" (after a trump supporter punched a trump detractor was was not being violent in any way)

"“Get out of here! Get ’em out of here! Get him the hell out!”"

"You see, in the good old days, law enforcement acted a lot quicker than this. A lot quicker. In the good old days, they’d rip him out of that seat so fast — but today, everybody’s politically correct,”"

"“They said to me, ‘What do you think of waterboarding?’ I said I think it’s great, but we don’t go far enough. It’s true. We don’t go far enough. We don’t go far enough.”"

"“bring back a hell of a lot worse than waterboarding”,"

"“There’s a guy, totally disruptive, throwing punches. We’re not allowed to punch back anymore. I love the old days. You know what they used to do to guys like that when they were in a place like this? They’d be carried out on a stretcher, folks.”" (again, despite wide media coverage and massive cell phone use, no punches are seen to be thrown by trump detractors at trump rallys)

"“I’d like to punch him in the face.”

" “If you see somebody getting ready to throw a tomato, knock the crap out of them, would you? Seriously. Just knock the hell out of them. I promise you, I will pay for the legal fees. I promise. There won’t be so much of them because the courts agree with us,”"

"“I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose voters.”"

2015

" “Maybe he should have been roughed up, because it was absolutely disgusting what he was doing. I have a lot of fans, and they were not happy about it. And this was a very obnoxious guy who was a troublemaker who was looking to make trouble.”" (after a man was beaten for yealling "black lives matter" )

"“See, the first group, I was nice. ‘Oh, take your time.’ The second group, I was pretty nice. The third group, I’ll be a little more violent. And the fourth group, I’ll say get the hell out of here!”"

"“That will never happen with me. I don’t know if I’ll do the fighting myself or if other people will. But that was a disgrace. … I felt badly for him, but it showed that he’s weak.”" (after protestors took the mike away from Bernie Sanders)


HE SAYS HE DOESN'T CONDONE VIOLENCE ON THE ONE HAND TRUE.
BUT HE ALSO CONDONES VIOLENCE ON THE OTHER.
WHICH MESSAGE IS BEING PICKED UP BY HIS SUPPORTERS?
SOME PICK UP ON THE FORMER AND AS WE SAW ON JAN 6, SOME PICK UP ON THE LATTER

Excellent listing of Trump's transgressions!

VERY nicely done!!
Thank you!

As someone who is fluent in redneck, these are not calls of violence in that language.

@Admin
As one redneck to another (grew up in West Virginia and Alabama and spent summers on my grandfather's farm in Chile), don't serve me up a cow patty and tell me it's chocolate pudding.


These are LITERALLY calls for violence:

“If you see somebody getting ready to throw a tomato, knock the crap out of them, would you? "

"Any difficulty and we will assume control but, when the looting starts, the shooting starts."

@Admin I grew up in the country and my family all is. I call BS, they understand this very well. Especially when he told the Proud boys to stand by and stay ready. And when he says that they are going to march down Pennsylvania avenue to the CAPITOL and tell their representatives very strongly what they all want them to do...they know.

@Admin As someone who lives redneck everyday (small town OK) I call bullshit. It's exactly the language of call to violence.

@Admin

As someone who is fluent in redneck, these are not calls of violence in that language.

And we have the winner for the most head-in-the-sand comment on the whole thread, ladies and gentlemen!

Are you fucking kidding us right now? You are NOT agnostic on this subject and you suggested. You're like, move a Catholic priest to a new district so he can avoid prosecution and find some fresh ass to rape level apologist here.
I was already shaking my head at you when you were only looking at just his words from the speech on that day in a total vacuum (which is asinine) but to say none of that, including the literal calls to violence where you don't even need context or inflection or non-verbal cues or anything else is a call to violence is absolutely fucking insane. I don't know how you pissed on all of our legs through the internet, but I'm inside so I know it's not raining.

@Admin I suggest, language or not, you don’t understand the situation.

24

Sprinkle gasoline over an area, every day, for two months.
Strike a match and the area ignites.
You don't have to touch the gasoline with the match.
The fumes ignite...

Excellent analogy.

19

In all seriousness, I find it rather baffling how anyone could listen to 45's rhetoric, whether in live speeches or online, and not come away the distinct impression that he has been inciting violence, from the start.
Even before the 2016 election, he was encouraging violence. I've heard him do it with my own ears.
He's only gotten worse since then.

KKGator Level 9 Jan 13, 2021

It's like the people that say, indignantly, "Name one thing Trump has ever said that was racist!" I've actually had people, I think even on this website, say something that fucking ridiculous to me.

17

@admin
"What did Trump do, if anything, to incite violence?"
He called on his people to march to the capital and take their country back and don't be weak. Weakness will not get your country back. He spent an hour riling up the crowd and send them to do his bidding. He also on several occasions stated to his Proud Boys to, "Stand back and stand by..." a call for action when he calls. There are others but I'm not going to list them all.

"I'm a fairly active reader of news but have only seen outrage in mainstream news outlets about the DC protests and not specific claims of what Trump did or how the protests were more violent or dangerous than the months of BLM protests last year. "
This is so disingenuous I can't believe you'd let this fly. It is literally on every news channel in America. Specifically, they quoted him 100 times a day. PBS and NPR have had many people discussing the specifics.

As for how they differ from BLM protests... first, this is irrelevant to the insurrection as BLM people were not ordered to go to the capital (the seat of our democracy) and instructed to take back their government. In the BLM protests no police died only protesters and by-standers. In the BLM protests there were Trumpers who admitted they infiltrated it to cause violence in order to harm the BLM movement. No such thing the other way around. (Childish finger pointing of "but they did..." is childish.)

"The attached video by JP Sears seems to suggest that Facebook, Twitter, Amazon, Apple, and Google have teamed up with Liberals to censor dissent and promote that Trump is dangerous via propaganda."
Until the insurrection the Big Techs went out of their way to be fair to GOP & Trumpers BUT afterwards they cut them off due to websites not following the rules of monitoring violence posted. Break the rules, break the contract. Tough cookies.

I specifically did not watch the vid, he's an ass and not to be taken seriously.

***I want to add that I think your bias is showing in this post, which I find very disappointing. I understand you are trying to keep people active here and some people think drama aids that but I expect more of an Admin than baiting.

Leelu Level 6 Jan 13, 2021

This is the 2nd time recently admin has show pro trump bias. Its ridiculous

@redhog and you notice he hasn't responded to me though I made a lengthy and sincere reply and he's responded to nearly everyone else. Telling.

@Leelu very much so. Ive heard people complain about him but I hadn't actually seen why until recently. No wonder people just give up here.

@redhog Some people just can't handle facts. 😀

16

I think it's kind of disingenuous to focus on what was said only and not the entire picture. Could what was said by the president on January 6th be said without the intent to incite violence? Sure it could. But, listen to the emotion in his voice and from the crowd; look at what transpired directly afterwards; look at the actions of the president while it was happening and afterwards. When all of this is taken together, it's hard to argue there wasn't intent.

Yes, I agree that some of his supporters could think he means physical violence... just as they could with most any comment. I can't say that he didn't have the intent to stir things up - Trump is an ass. The only silver lining of the protest is that it might be cathartic and reduce tension in the long run.

@Admin The “silver lining” ,as you put it, would be the unveiling of some individuals who are willing to resort to taking these steps to win their point.

I watch with interest from the safety of outside your border as you beat yourselves up.

@Davekp I have family up there who I hope would take me in if it ever got too bad.

14

Odd, the VOTES say yes, Trump did call for violence, and has been inciting his drones for the last 4 years. But, the commenters for the most part seem to BE those very same Faux Noise Drones. And such a pitiful showing of the whine crowd. He rallied his troops of basement dwellers and Mamma's boys and told them he would lead the march on the capitol. Of course he stayed behind in his "Command Tent" to watch the action and cheer. Trump can't even pull off a Jim Jones Cult because he's a born coward. He is a despicable slug on the side walk. Someone should just step on him and smear him along the curb as they wipe him from their shoe. Now Trumps raider are going to prison, where they belong.

MerlinZap Level 7 Jan 14, 2021

" just step on him and smear him along the curb" ... I think there was a scene about that in the movie "American History X". Are you trying to incite violence here?

@Admin If that's the way you want to see it.

@Admin You're right, a nameless person from a "small free website" or whatever you called it metaphorically taking about ridding ourselves of the vile, violence-loving asshole in the White House and the most powerful person in the world inciting an insurrection on his own government are totally the same. That's some powerful whataboutism game you got going on.

@Admin That is a great movie BTW.

@MerlinZap, @JeffMurray, @TheGreatShadow Should we clamp down on Agnostic "Hate Speech" the same way as if it was said on Parler by a Trump supporter as seen by the examples in my screenshot below? If so, MerlinZap will be banned immediately and permanently. Want that? Why is your statement to KILL TRUMP like stepping a slug different than a Trump supporter statement of KILL ANTIFA by stepping on a cockroach? Why is it assumed to be a metaphor on Agnostic but not on Parler? On Parler, saying that was enough to have their entire site killed. Are you afraid in the slightest that Agnostic will be removed next for "hate speech"?

@Admin So you're against capital punishment? Because that's the law.

Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 807; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(2)(J), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2148.)

@Admin Why is a metaphor a metaphor? Is that really your question? If that's our starting point for educating people we want to find common ground with, this is an impossibly long road. Ridding yourself of someone like a squished slug off your boot or whatever the phrase was couldn't be anything other than a metaphor. You can't literally step on the president, and even if you could, it wouldn't kill him or barely even hurt him. The screenshot you posted was some super violent, very specific death threats. They call out 15 specific people, call to shoot police officers right in the head, and wait until Senators grovel before killing them too.
Absolutely that person should be banned for posting that.
And here, again, we see your next-level equivocation skills.
Someone should just step on Trump and smear him on the curb cannot be considered the same as shoot the police officers that are protecting Senators directly in the head so we can then make the Senators beg for their lives before we shoot them to death too, plus, these specific 15 people, we are coming for you and you will know it.
Tell me you're not that, whatever, that you can tell the difference between those things. Please.

@JeffMurray That was quite the useless diatribe over a metaphor. Let me ask you this. Did you start this post with the long hair idiot at the beginning or did you post the very next post about "Violence in America, Democrat and Liberal?"............GO

@MerlinZap Useless because he won't get any value from it, or because you think it has no value?

14

Context. Context is everything. Open a dictionary. You will find different meanings for the same word depending on the...Context. Pelosi's context is (1) that she doesn't have violent groups with allegiance to her or hanging on her every word. And (2) she doesn't have a history of calling for violence to be enacted in her presence. With Trump, it is the opposite. So when Pelosi and Trump both say the word "fight," it has quite different meanings for each and for those who listen to them. That's why there are different entries in the dictionary for the word "fight." Admin, you're smart enough to have figured that out. So how about you reflect critically on the right-wing sophistry that you find on the Web?

Krish55 Level 7 Jan 13, 2021

I'll take your point to heart. I'm not going to fight here 😉

He may be smart enough, but is he conscientious enough?

12

I believe it’s disingenuous not to acknowledge the continuous drip of a prophesy of election fraud which Mr. Trump had for months been feeding to his supporters, as part of a deliberate strategy by him to cast uncertainty and doubt on any result in which he was not the victor. First lay the groundwork and sow the seeds, and keep cultivating that idea in the minds by reinforcing the message regularly. These are classic tactics of all demagogues, despots, and fascist regimes....straight out of the Goebbels playbook I’d say. By the time the election results came in, their indoctrination ran so deep that they were already convinced that the election had been stolen from them. The fact that no evidence can be found to support such an assertion will not shift the view they hold that Mr Trump was cheated. Add to that his rhetoric, telling them, the people, to come to Washington and then to march on down to the Capitol, to take back the power which was being stolen from them.

It doesn’t take a mastermind to make a correlation between all these points and to arrive at the conclusion that without actually saying it in so many words ...Mr Trump was expecting they would storm in and prevent the lawful business at hand ...namely the confirmation of Mr Biden as the legally elected President of the United States. This is as clear an incitement to undermine and interfere with the due and legal process of the US government as there could be in my opinion. The likelihood of violence was always present because many of the insurgents were armed and ready to do what was necessary to do their leader’s bidding, and Mr Trump was banking on it. That you can be sure of, regardless of what he may now say to the contrary.

Well reasoned, well stated!

@AnneWimsey Thank you...as a Brit I sometimes hesitate to offer my analysis of your politics, but this was all played out in the full glare of the international spotlight.

@Marionville: Excellently stated! When Trump asked protestors to march to the Capitol he should have added "but no violence, no vandalism. We want it to be peaceful" Any decent person, well knowing that a huge number of protestors can easily turn into a vicious mob, would have added that.

@Ray13 IMO not just "forgetfulness!!!!!

12

Charles Manson never killed anyone. He just sent his followers out to do his dirty work. Basically, that is what Trump did. Called a rally, fired them up, sent them to the capital. Pretty straight line incitement. No confusion here. But then I truly do hate the son of a bitch!

Your not alone. I am a mere 15 min subway ride from Trump Tower. Everyone I know here hates his guts. It would be a really bad idea if he came back here.

12

I'll play. What did trump do, if anything, to stop violence ?

Leetx Level 6 Jan 13, 2021

Didn't he make a statement and tweet to ask the protestors to go home peacefully? (from what I heard)

Yes. A couple of hours after he let the cows out of the barn... he closed the barn door...@Admin

@Leetx As a farm boy, I can say cows are some of the nicest animals I know. Geese, on the other hand, are not.

@Leetx He also disingenuously said "remain peaceful" long after they were already violent insinuating that what they had done so far classified as peaceful enough to him.

@Admin hours after All the damage was done, and he was forced to, to avoid immediate arrest, duuuuhhhhhh

@Admin

go home peacefully

... Followed by "we love you", which is the opposite of condemnation for their actions and reeks of approval.

@Admin : Trump also said he loved them and they were very special. Well, I wouldn't want any of those 'very special' protesters living next door to me.

@Admin Let us look at his words in true context...
When armed militia entered the state capitols of Michigan and other states. He called them "Patriots"
When asked to condemn the Proud Boys in the debate he said "Stand down and stand by" (Stand by for what we might ask?)
After the election, he continued to espouse misinformation of voter fraud. To the extent that hardly any of his base believe that the elections were fair. Even though no proof has come to light and BOTH of his appointees in the DOJ and DHS said there was none.
He refused to condemn the attempted kidnapping of the Mi governor.
He then called on his supporters to come to Washington for a "Stop the steal" rally. ( A clear violation of the Hatch Act but we kinda stopped worrying about little niceties like that ages ago)
(At this point any responsible person might think that there might be some trouble and maybe tone down the rhetoric, however...)
On the day of the rally when Gulliani called for "Trial by combat". Trump son says "We are coming for you". Trump then ... “This egregious assault on our democracy,” he said his supporters should “walk down to the Capitol.”— “We are going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women,” he continued, “and we are probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them — because you will never take back our country with weakness.”
(Exactly where was he expecting his supporters to be cheering from? A respectful distance, all 6 feet apart through muffled masks at closed windows?)

With all this one MUST bear in mind that he is not just some guy, He is the POTUS. His words carry weight (if no substance). You call a mob to come to Washington. Knowing full well that far-right elements and a lot of angry people will be there. (You cannot tell me that there were no security briefings about what might happen.) Then you tell them to walk to the capitol and "you will never take back our country with weakness.” Well just what the f*ck did he think was going to happen? Oh and after it did happen "We love you...You are very special people."

Okay let me put this another way;
There is a guy at the local bar going on and on about how there is a paedo in our community. He says that the police will do nothing and then goes into graphic detail about the acts he alleges have been happening. All night he rants on about this guy and when the bar is about to close he says; Let's walk round to the guy's house and show him how we feel about him. Adding "We have to show strength here"
So then a mob breaks into the guy's house and beats him to death. To what extent was that ranter responsible?

11

Trump did not incite violence. He did something MUCH worse!

When it was VERY clear The Capitol was being attacked, he refused to deploy the National Guard to protect the government and its elected official. He refused SIX TIMES!
Correction: trump refused 1 time. The other times were before the attack and were decisions by security officials and people at the pentagon.

We can't say its negligence, because he clearly want Congress to invalidate a our completely valid and true election process. So TRUMP AND HIS COLLABORATORS COOPERATED AND HELPED WITH A TERRORIST ATTACK ON OUR GOVERNMENT.

Those terrorists should have been exterminated with extreme prejudice. The fact that they weren't is a national shame and the blame lies starting with Trump, and anyone else who aided and abetted.

Just because one is dumb enough to attempt a poorly executed coercion or overthrow of the government using violence does not excuse one from the repercussions. If one entered the capitol building as part of the attack then one is guilty of sedition. If someone of the governnment helped foment the attack unexpectedly but then refused to do one's duty to protect the government because it result in a power gain, then tgat one is also guilty of sedition.

Jail the perpetrators for LIFE!

MakeItGood Level 7 Jan 13, 2021

Yes, we live in uncertain times. How do you expect the next 4 years to go?

@Admin if the trump supporters can suppress their urge to attack and destroy when things don't go their way, if the right doesnt spout outright lies about basic science, if the right can muster up some scraps of decency and respect the rights of minority groups and hear their cries for help instead of attacking the victims, if the right can understand that our economy is not isolated and requires participation within a global system, and if the right can stop undermining our workers health and finances just because big businesss found a way to do it and make a buck...may be we'll have a nice calm 4 years.

But im not holding my breath.

@MakeItGood so basically if the right just goes away or decide to agree with the left, we'll have a nice calm 4 years... I'll not hold me breath either 😉

@MakeItGood
in perspective of the other side if the left can stop making grandiose utopian plans of environmental change, if the left can put equal consideration into rural America as they do Urban america, if the left can pursue technologies and advancements that benefit the farmer, the construction worker, and the store manager as much as they do the professor, the programmer, and the inventor, if the left can respect the right of people to refer to each other as he and she alongside the right of people to request to be called cis and them, if the left can stop thinking of minorities as people they need to take care of like a child instead of given equal opportunities like an adult

...Then maybe will not only have a calm for years but an outstanding reunification of America

@Admin the question is why are those ideas considered left. Note I didnt put anything about religion, or culture or succumbing identity politics or socialism or communism. Im just talking about acknowledging reality and being decent and empathetic lol.

I think I read a couple of days ago that there are no leftists. Democrats by most accounts are typically center right leaning. Only Bernie and AOC are real left leaning politicians and Im not including them at all.

There is some truth to saying there is no left atleast not in politics, theres simply the far right pushing around the centerists so much that leftists are sounding reasonable. If the far right/republicans start labeling a centrist left and then gaslight them at everypoint...guess what? They'll end up creating real leftists. And once that starts the power will shift as more and more get fed up with the far right shenanigans.

Conservatives and republicans need to calm the fuck down and start negotiating and playing nice, or the red states will turn blue really quick in the next decade.

@Admin, @TheMiddleWay

Lol dude thats version of the left doesn't exist! The far right has convinced you there is some mystical group called the left. Yeah maybe there are a few thousand nobodies in New York or in California. Maybe a few thousand more scattered across the country. But they are largely ignored by everybody as ridiculous.

Most "liberals" are center right. Bernie and AOC are literally the only one who can truly say they lean slightly left. Hillary and Biden were anti gay marriage, pro war, and part of big business. I don't think of them as left for one minute. They are party players and party players are all the same.

Im an independent. I voted twice for obama because he was mostly the best of the two, but I would have voted for Mccain if he had not chosen sarah palin. I held my nose and voted for hillary because i knew how bad trump was. But when he won you can ask anyone I know what I said, which is "ok, hes our president, I hope he turns a new leaf and magically does some awesome things that benefits us". Then came the travel bans, the dumb wall idea, meetings with murderous dictators...ugh...

Im telling you this to prove to you that I will support conservative or liberal, democrat or republican, if they are actual good for the job and have good ideas.

So I tell you again, all that giberish you wrote about the left, it doesnt exist. There is no grand plan for the environment. No one has solutions. We just gave the data and its alarming. Most of the battle has be about ehat the data even says. And were arguing with religious nuts who think the world is 5000 years old. Gimme a break...there is no grand plan.

You have the audacity to say the left doesnt want to help rural farmers? When they fight for free health care? For a universal basic income? Dont you think think that would help farmers. And its not even a socialist idea! It regulated capitalism.

Dude identity politics is a manufactured poltical issue. It fills an hour podcast nicely don't you think. Something to get uppity about when it doesnt EVEN FUCKING CONCERN YOU!? Who gives a shit about gender. Let people call themselves whatever they want. Fuck off with that nonissue. It concerns all of .01% of people and the right make a fucking mountain out of a damned atom of an issue. Seriously fuck off with that issue. It shouldn't exist.bstop making it an issue, it doesnt affect you more that fart in your face, that is to say a mere annoyance.

Buddy if you think fighting against intitutional racism sexism and abuse of power is equivalent to childish behavior...i refer to the right getting triggered for having to remember a pronoun. Youve instantly lost all credibility.

@MakeItGood
I don't agree that that most people that consider themselves on the left are Center right.

However I do agree that most of our characterizations of right and left are caricatures and stereotypes.
And when I wrote my response I was literally tapping into those stereotypically left ideals as a counterpoint to stereotypically right ideals presented prior.

I can't find any reliable sources that say Trump refused to send in the National Guard six times. The best article I can find says that the Pentagon originally refused to provide support though they don't know why. I'd be interested in sources for this claim. If it's true, that would be incredibly damning but what I'm finding doesn't sound as terrible as this sounds.

@UpsideDownAgain you are correct:
This was the article:
[npr.org]

If you read the title, you can see how I made my mistake: it makes it sound as if trump refused it six time. It was as far as I can tell, the national guard was not deployed until many hours after the attack.

The six times was with the capitol security chief and a pentagon official before the attack.

But we don't really know the details, how many requests were made during the attack. So I guess we'll have to wait.

@MakeItGood Thanks for sharing that. It is very confusing. When I typed it into Google, I got a whole range of claims about what happened. The best I can figure is that Trump claimed he called in the guard right away when really he didn't do it at all. Whether he was in charge of doing so or not is very confusing.

11

You are obviously a Trumper. The man's a big fat liar. Worse president we have ever had. Why would anyone, except a supporter, defend him? If I had just joined agnostic.com I would seriously consider leaving. But I've met too many wonderful people on-line to do that after 2.5 years. Please put a little more thought into your posts from now on. I really don't want to see you lose members.

Ray13 Level 8 Jan 13, 2021

I do try to soften my posts... but if people want to have any meaningful discussions, I can't. For example, what if the title was "What did Trump do to incite violence?"? The result would JUST be a list of phrases which people think do. I don't like Trump but I believe that the only way this country will survive major changes like conservative Whites losing their cultural "whiteness" hegemony is for the country to throw out identity politics and the merciless persecution of conservative Whites for being bad just for being white. To me, denying that they are is similar to denying that Blacks get pulled over more for just being black.

@Admin please cite some examples of whites being persecution for just being white, you are sounding like the harberngr of a war on christmas and the darkies are going to get everything for free type person.

@Admin There are PLENTY of reasons conservative [white] people, collectively, are fucking terrible that are available to choose from, they don't need to resort to the color of their skin...

9

Read!! Read about authoritarian dictators throughout history. Trump is following "textbook" strategies for taking control of a country. This ISN'T just about storming the Capital. This IS about the bigger picture of the past 5 years which includes his year of campaigning.

We should not be shocked it came to this. If you look at this dictator want-a-be, being backed by the GOP AND rich corporations, media, and social media, you will see a pattern and strategy emerge, much like Hitler and Mussolini.

We need to stop focusing on the tree, because it's the forrest that will be the downfall. Trump may or may not go into oblivion after January 20, but the energies behind him are still working at getting America ruled by one party, one philosophy, one-way...and it's a religious, conservative, elitist way.

Wake up!!!

linxminx Level 7 Jan 13, 2021

As you might expect, Trump supporters see things in reverse. They see the US as forever being run by Team Blue - remove rural protection by eliminating the electoral college, giving voting ability to millions of undocumented people who vote Blue, and demographic racial trends all make this an almost certainty. May I ask how you see it that Team Red has any chance going forward?

@Admin

Nobody has EVER said to give voting rights to undocumented people and it's not legal for them to do so. Check out real sources and see that voter fraud is very rare and not as faux news tries to tell you it is.

Go read about the massive gerrymandering problem that has carried the GOP to where they are. You want to talk about unfair? Get rid of gerrymandering because that's the main reason Red has been in charge the majority of the time the past thirty years.

You apparently only have a concern for team red as you make abundantly clear with the misinformation and the slanted information you provide. Find sources that are less far right wing and find some truth.

Realize that the real problems are white supremacists, income inequality, supporting those less fortunate, childhood hunger, HEALTH care that people don't need to set up go fund me's to live, etc, and stop giving our tax dollars to corporate charity and making the extremely wealthy wealthier.

@Larimar Fair point on gerrymandering although I've seen examples on both sides (I honestly don't know which side does it more... do you have a link?). I guess Team Red is just as afraid of 2021 as Team Blue was in 2017. As far as taxes, I'm for 40% tax on high income - higher than even the Obama years. Also on higher inheritance tax on fat cats if they haven't donated away the majority of their wealth...

@Admin I'm not team anything though I lean more blue. I am most Team Truth. I loathe the BS and try to vet my information to be as lean on bias as I can and to be as factual as I can. My problem with most of your posts has been because you are obviously biased using biased and nonfactual sources.

[npr.org]

Currently it's the major player for the GOP.

[huffpost.com]

The evidence was found when this guy died.

[apnews.com]

@Admin All of your posts should be Community Senate rules. I'm seeing a lot of responses to missing posts from the ridiculous number of blocks being used on this site. Can't really have the open debate you're looking for when not one of us can see every post (except maybe you).

9

To put it in to plainest words. Trump publicly asked, pleaded for protesters to come to Washington DC on Jan 6 for a rally "to stop the steal". A steal which it has been shown in courtroom after courtroom, NEVER took place. At the rally, his sons, his personal attorney and himself incited that crowd with words calling for action using battle metaphors. Then told them to go down the mall to the Capitol Building to show their protest. And that is what the crowd did in spadefuls, I watched it live on the internet myself. He threw a match in to a container full of gasoline and it exploded. And you ask, what did he do?

I have never been so angry and pissed off at the @Admin as I am for asking this question. You should be shouting from the rooftops your complete disapproval of what Trump did on Jan 6. He tried to over throw the democratic process of the USA. The riots of the last summer were not trying to over throw the government of the USA. They were frustrated outbursts of anger towards a racist police enforcement. Some did have violence and the damage rioters did to their communities can not be justified. But they did not try to over throw the government of the United States. If you can not see or understand what I have just written, then I can not respond to you without engaging in very vile language, and I am choosing not to do that.

creative51 Level 8 Jan 13, 2021

I appreciate your restraint. I do not believe that there was vote fraud to a level that effected the results of the election. "Stop the Steal", to me, seems like a metaphor for what Trump supporters feel was a four-year coordinated effort of Big Tech and media to misrepresent their side's position and stifle resistance. I strongly denounce the way Trump wanted to challenge the electoral process on Jan 6th as I do denounce the immediate plan to throw out the electoral college process. This question is about did the words Trump say result in violence. Most Trump supports don't believe they did. I am personally agnostic about it as I see the points made by both sides.

@Admin What are their points exactly that you find so valid that you've failed to make up your mind?

9

He whipped them into a frenzy with lies and then sent them on to the capitol building without him. Don't be obtuse!

LovinLarge Level 7 Jan 13, 2021

Do you believe that all the things that whipped up BLM last summer were truths?

@Admin Impossible to answer such a ridiculously broad question with any accuracy. Nice try.

@Admin Law enforcement has disproportionately targeted people of color, for a LONG time.
That is a fact.
The murders of George Floyd and Breonna Taylor, just to name two, forced a reckoning.

Comparing what happened all across the country, and around the world, to what happened in DC last week, is NOT reasonable. They are not the same.
They are two very distinctly different issues.
It's truly appalling how some people don't see how they cannot be compared to one another.

Whenever I've seen/heard anyone attempt that comparison, I've noticed that they've usually been white, and lean (or are firmly planted) to the right. The "what-aboutisms"
strike me as weak and pathetic.

9

As twitter deleted the post I can not comment at this time however as he has a history of posts that incite people to violence and glorify violence it would be in character for him to react this way. That he would say something like take back the capitol knowing full well that while rational people would take that to mean use your voting, political power to enact change the morons that follow him go "Imma gonna get ma gun and shoot up shit"

Budgie Level 7 Jan 13, 2021
9

Ahh! a troll poll by Dr. Frankenstein who doesn't agree with his monster.

Mind explaining the metaphor?

@Admin Yep, I do, everyone knows exactly what I mean.

@Willow_Wisp sure do

8

[adfontesmedia.com]

The first video is a guy who thinks he's a comic. Try using a real source like those in the green box at the top of the photo or using www.mediabiasfactcheck.com to see where your sources are on the spectrum. AND STOP BELIEVING ANY WORD OUT OF TRUMP'S MOUTH!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seriously, Admin, you show yourself to be on the wrong side time and time again. Go to my post from Seth Abramson and read it ALL THE WAY THROUGH then answer your own question. Facts and truth are important.

Larimar Level 7 Jan 13, 2021

Could be. Thanks

JP was really funny when he focused on being funny unilaterally about left and right, blue and red, science and pseudo science.

He stopped being funny when he focused on only being funny about the left and the blue and the science.

@TheMiddleWay agreed

8

I keep seeing @Admin use the excuse of yes, but BLM. All that does is cloud the issue. The issue is on and before Jan 6, 2021 did Donald Trump incite violence against those that disagreed with him. Do you remember 2016, "rough them up, I'll pay for the lawyer", when the looting starts, the shooting starts, and the list is way too long to try to begin to list hjere. The issue you asked about was DJT,, NOT BLM. If this is to be a valid exhange, don't change the rules in the middle. One topic at a time please. If you have a problem with BLM post on that, don't begin by asking about DJT then answer many questions with but BLM.

glennlab Level 9 Jan 13, 2021

My point is to cloud the issue if the issue is forced to be restricted only to the evil "other side". I put them together to emphasize that both sides see the other side as violent. Do you think that white Trump supporters view the BLM protests as "mostly peaceful"? I assume you would agree that they don't. I'm very concerned that mutual contempt that is going on won't end well.

@Admin You are clouding your own issue. Reality has proven that many times the violence during BLM protests was NOT BLM attendees but Boogaloo Bois, Proud Boys, etc. So stop the BS about both sides, because it's not.

@Admin I don't care what their "perception" is because they aren't believing reality, it's been reported time and time and time again. The protest that I took part in was helped by the fact that I used to work for Probation and Parole....I KNEW the cops. I pointed out some that didn't belong to our protest and they were pushed aside and not allowed to rejoin the march. Entirely peaceful

[washingtonpost.com]

[msn.com]

@Admin I am a white people, I was part of the civil rights movement in the 60s and 70s. I have criticised administrations of both parties for doing the things I considered wrong. One of the most importantrules of debate is that you must define terms and limit the debate to those agreed to terms. This is not creating an echo chanber, but allow full examination of an issue before going on to another. There are more than 2 sides to every issue, if you keep injecting tangents to the mix, you stoop to going to a two sided arguement instead of lively debate.

In Washington, on 1/6 there were several different groups on each side. There were both legal and illegal actions that took place simotainiously. If we simply limited the discussion to the events of Jan 6, not anything that happened in the leadup, there would still be multifaceted explainations.

  1. DJT held a legal rally that morning. He incouraged illegal activity during that rally.
  2. DJT refused to allow activation of the DC national Guard, and required that only the Sec of Defense could authorize activation, a violation of protocal that the Sec of the Army, or the Govs of Va or MD could activate units if requested. They were requested.
  3. Many protesters stopped at the police barracades and did not violate the law.
    4.Some number of the protesters not only crossed the barracades, but scaled the walls of the capitol broke windows, beat at least one police officer to death, looted, illegally entered the house chamber and offices and did considerable damage to building, furniture, fixtures and artwork.
  4. This stopped the constitutionally mandated action of the Congress of counting the vote.

Each of those points is inline with your topic, there is no need to add more cloudiness to the issues. Each of those bullet points could take a lot of discussion, but since many members get blocked, we are only going to see a few of the comments. I have none of them blocked by the way.

I have stopped worring about how the trump supporters perceive things. I have quite a few in my family and friends. I Listened as the degradated other races, ethnic groups, nationalities, religions, classes, income levels, intellence levels, and pretty much anything that was other than them. Not once in the last 50+ years did they show any concern about how I felt about an issue since they were right and had god on their side.

Until we all have the same rights, I will continue to try to give voice to the voiceless.

@glennlab Thanks for taking the time to elaborate. I have much respect for the civil rights movement during the 60s/70s. However, I'm more a fan of the vision of MLK/Booker T/Sowell than Malcom/DeBois/Kendi. In 2021, we need to find a way for both sides to lay down them arms.

@Admin I agree both sides to need to foresweare violence and arms. I have been a conditional pacificist since high school. I objected to the War in Vietnam, but served anyhow. I served working with our nuclear capabilities, then cross trained to war planning. I never got involved with any violent protest and normally exited as soon as someone brought it up. Decades later due to FOIA releases of the operatives names we discovered that the people that were encouraging violence were paid police aggitators, undercover operatives, or other government agents.

I never trusted anyone ,including MX, that advocted violent overthrow of any organization. When you resort to violence you have lost the chance of winning the arguement, You may get the other side to submit, but they will not agree you are right.

8

How does this question go no and on? Where have you been for the last 4 years?

DenoPenno Level 9 Jan 13, 2021

I believe that both sides of the political spectrum see the other side as "terrorists" for what they think the vision of the US should be. I also believe that this is mostly due to the social-media outrage machine, echo chambers, and call out culture. One way to get this to stop is to be exposed to how the other side forms their beliefs. For example, most Trump supporters do not see his statements as inciting them to violence... and a question like this one is trying to show that.

@Admin Most Trump supporters approve of racist, authoritarian, fascist government; which if implemented, you would not be allowed to run a website like this one.

@creative51 That is an unrealistic generalization. 'Most' Trump supporters are just ordinary people.

@creative51 Do you have more proof other than that they voted for Trump? Many here would say that that's suffice.

@Admin @BDair My proof is that I have personally encountered Trump supporters in real life. They were racist and accepting of authoritarian and what would be fascist government. Now I do suppose there might be a few who would not fit that description, but they are darn few.

@creative51 I agree. Maybe the first go around you could try to make the claim they were "regular people" (and even that would be a stretch) but not now. Not after what we've seen for 4 years. And also, what's the definition of normal we're using here? There are a ton of racists in the country, so is that just part of normal? There are a ton of people who don't believe in facts and science. Is that normal too?

@creative51 I have have many acquaintances that still support Trump, despite his failings as a human. None of them are racists, and they are all otherwise intelligent and rational beings.

@BDair OK

7

I must object to the ongoing accusation of politicisation of major social media networks.
There is no evidence of partisan moderation, and is a complaint of the insincere and brainwashed.

Mvtt Level 6 Jan 13, 2021

Can you show some examples of Democrat commentators with over 1M followers being banned from Big Tech social media?

@Admin Can you point to a such a Democrat with a Trump-like like history of inciting violence? You are ignoring CONTEXT again. Hitler had a lot of followers. Yet he is now banned in Germany. Hmmn, I wonder why? Must be some pro-liberal prejudice?

@Admin In response, I would rather reject the assertion outright, without evidence having been reasonably supplied on the argument’s behalf.
There’s a false equivalency logical fallacy at play when asserting trump being republican as a contributing reason in his outcasting.

@Admin
Not recently. Because recently, democratic commentators aren't saying the same things that conservative democrators are being banned for including covid denial and misinformation as well as election denial and misinformation and most recently the toxic masculinity of trump supporters.

But i can present this:

Jeffrey Sachs, a political scientist at Canada’s Acadia University, put together a database of all incidents where a professor was dismissed for political speech in the United States between 2015 and 2017. Sachs’s results, published by the left-libertarian Niskanen Center, actually found that left-wing professors were more frequently dismissed for their speech than conservative ones:

[google.com]

This has an accessible database which ypu can check for veracity by seeing if the incidence in the database are real and properly labeled

@Admin Sure, as soon as you show some examples of Democrat commentators with over 1M followers inciting terrorist attacks. Hint: they'll be the same people.

@Admin
Here you go. More or less what you asked for. it's not one left accoumt with 1 million followers but 80 left accounts with 5 million followers

Twitter accounts run by activists linked to the Occupy movement have been suspended after the social network continued its attempted crackdown on bots and fake accounts. Around 80 activists with a collective following of five million people are thought to have had their accounts suspended.

[wired.co.uk]

@Admin Can you show some examples of Democrat commentators with over 1M followers calling for treason and insurrection?

7

I am done with this fucking admin asking moronic questions. Can't be this stupid or ignorant.

Mofo1953 Level 8 Jan 13, 2021

I have heard a handful of Trumps speeches and have never gotten a vibe that I'm suppose to act out any form of violence. I do sense, however, that anger is rising and not helped by this latest round of banning/censorship. Shutting down Parler by Big Tech is seen by Trump's supporters the same as their pet guard dog being shot. Good intentions have unintended consequences... just like my posts 😉

@Admin the road to a hellish inferno is paved with good intentions. Not sure what speeches you've heard or what rally you attended or if you are selectively deaf, but it could not have been more clear. Now I am really done. Do some research instead of polling shit. Might as well poll is there light during the day only to get dark at night or is it the other way around? DUH???

7

Dear @Admin. I know you are a smart man, as you have made many millions of dollars on the internet with various dating web sites (and of course you claim to be giving most of it away to ... well I do not know what, but that is what you have said). I can not believe someone who has accumulated such wealth, has to ask "what did Trump do?". You know damn well what he did and by asking a question such as this, you are applying for membership in the "lets make excuses for Trump and enable him to destroy more of the social fabric of america". What the fuck is wrong with you?

creative51 Level 8 Jan 13, 2021

"What the fuck is wrong" with TOTD posts promoting lively 'discussions' ? 😮

@FearlessFly If I have to explain what is wrong with this specific question, you would never get it anyway.

Would a topic like "let's list all the hateful things we think Trump said" result in learning anything new that you don't already believe? Wouldn't that be a waste of your time? As you know, there are other communities who feel differently.

@Admin Just because you can find opposing opinions doesn't mean the two opinions are of equal merit. There are people who believe the Earth is flat. There are people (including the President) who have claimed climate change is a Chinese hoax. There are people who believe having non-white skin makes you inferior. Do you think any of those opinions have equal merit to their counterpart??

@Admin @DangerDave just posted an Excellent video from 2016 onward...drumpy's own words, his continuing incitement!

7

It is hard for me to realistically believe that Trump (and some of his supporters) are not purveyors of division at the least, violence at the worst.

How are we (anyone) to believe him (given all the misinformation/lies), if/when he says he wants peace ?

FWIW, almost every statement by a political could be consider violence inducing by the other side... no?

@Admin
Yes.
But none of those political statements led to a group plotting to kidnap the governor of Michigan who was singled out by the president and none of those political statements led to an asdault of state and national capitals based on a debunked theory promoted by the president.

Unique events usually point to unique circumstances.
So what unique political statements are responsible for violence witnessed at state capitals and our nation's capitol?
Could it be claims of election fraud?
And if so, who is the main promoter of election fraud?

@Admin I agree your video about the progressives' comments is damaging.

6

..

This is very true. BTW you changed your screen handle on this site!

I've been following the radical Christians uptick for several years now. My family is full of them. When Trump came on the scene they had found their 'savior'. If someone had told me six or seven years ago that my much loved siblings would become moral less, spineless, cowards I wouldn't have believed it. They started digging in deep when their religion grabbed hold. smh

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Posted by Admin How many good friends do you have from other political tribes?

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Posted by Admin How do you feel about Parler being removed from the Internet?

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Posted by Admin What do you expect to be achieved by this week's pro-Trump DC rally?

Posted by Admin What did you learn in 2020?

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